Both Muhammad and Allah made this claim, which was a big lie. The Jews caught Allah red-handed of His lies in his own words. Apparently extremely embarrassed and angered, He ordered annihilation of the Jews of Medina, who caught him. He also had to change His earlier revealed requirements for prophethood to establish the validity of Muhammad’s prophethood. Find out all these and more…
Muslims claim that Muhammad was a prophet, whose coming was prophesied in Christian Gospels and the Jewish Torah. World-famous Sufi Muslim intellectual Fethullah Gulen says:
According to Islam, almost all previous prophets predicted Prophet Muhammad… Despite the distortions suffered by the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels, we find indications of his coming.
Indeed, Muhammad himself made the same claim to the Jews and Christians of Arabia saying:
I am the one whose coming Abraham prayed for and Jesus gave glad tidings of, and I resemble my forefather Abraham more than anyone else [Muttaqi al-Hindi, Kanz al-'Ummal, 11:384].
When he failed to convince them and they rejected him and his Islam—Allah, the God of Muhammad and Islam, ordered their persecution and annihilation; the Jews suffering their first Holocaust at Muhammad’s hand: he slaughtered en masse the men of Banu Quraiza, Banu Nadir (earlier evicted by Muhammad from Medina and resettled in Khaybar) and Banu Mustaliq tribes, and enslaved their women and children [my book, Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery, gives a concise overview of Muhammad's pogrom of the Jews].
The claim that Muhammad was the promised future prophet of the Jews and Christians is rooted in Allah’s own claim in Quran 7:157:
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them…
Connected to this prophetic succession is another Islamic claim that Muhammad was the “seal”—the finality—of prophethood [Quran 33:40]:
…he is the Messenger of God and the Seal of the prophets. And God is ever Knower of all things.
In other words, Muhammad was not only the Prophet, but also the final prophet, predicted in the Torah and Gospels.
Is that true? Not at all! This will be proven in Allah’s own words!
Before proceeding, let me briefly address a couple of troublesome issues with these verses.
Gospels/New Testament says Jesus was the final Messiah: Allah’s claim in Quran verses 7:157 that Gospels predict the coming of a future prophet is a big lie, which Allah repeats in Quran 61:6:
When Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O children of Israel! I am indeed a Messenger of God to you, confirming that which was [revealed] before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a Messenger who shall come after me, whose name is Ahmad [Muhammad].”
While the Torah predicts the coming of prophets, Gospels are very clear that Jesus was the final savior of the Jews, and by extension, of all Gentile nations. Those of the Jews, who embraced Jesus, would enter the “true House/Children of Israel”, the Kingdom of God; because, the Old Israel had become defunct with Jesus’ promised coming. Those, who would reject Jesus, would be thrown out of the Kingdom of God, as he told the Jews: “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit” [Mat 21:43].
The overall theme of the New Testament is:
- Jesus was the promised prophet;
- With his coming, Judaism and God’s old Law in its entirety have become obsolete, of no value, whatsoever;
- Those, who embraced Jesus, would constitute the “True Israel”, the Old Israel had become defunct;
- Those, who embrace Jesus, would have guaranteed salvation by simply believing in Christ, without even requiring to follow any law.
Thus, in Christianity, Jesus was the finality in the God’s succession of prophethood; no future prophet would come, whatsoever. Therefore, Allah is wrong or ignorant to claim that Gospels mention the coming of a prophet.
Muslims also claim that Jesus was a true prophet of their Allah. If that is so, then, 1) Islamic claim that another prophet would come is baseless; or 2) their claim of Jesus being a true prophet of Islam is a sham, a complete deception.
No finality of prophetic succession in the Torah: The second problem with Muhammad’s prophetic claim is that he was the final prophet. In the Torah, Moses prophesies the coming of prophets in Deu 18:15:
“The lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers.”
This verse spells no finality in the succession of prophethood whatsoever; prophets would continue coming whenever need arises throughout the existence of the Israelite nation; no end or finality is indicated in this verse.
Does Muhammad qualify to be a promised prophet of the Torah?
Was Muhammad’s claim to prophethood valid? Not at all, as we will see.
Jesus also made the same claim, and Apostle Peter pointed to the same verse (i.e. Deu 18:15) in the New Testament (i.e. Act 3:22) to justify Jesus’ coming as a Messiah to the Jews. Malachi 3:1, which falls outside the Torah, also make a similar prophesy (“See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me…”), but the Gospel of Mark (1:2) attributes it somewhat wrongly to the ‘Book of Isaiah’.
However, Muhammad, an illiterate prophet, completely failed to point out which verse in the Torah prophesied his coming as a prophet. Allah tried on Muhammad’s behalf, but erred big-time [Quran 2:129]:
(Abraham prayed): “Our Lord, raise up in their midst a Messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Your revelations, and teach them the Book and Wisdom, and purify them…”
It was not Abraham as claimed by Allah, but Moses—through whom the biblical God sent His first revelations—had prophesied the coming of prophets.
However, to the fulfillment of this prophesy, numerous Israelites have come with the claim of prophethood to the Jewish people throughout history—both before Jesus and after—well into the modern era (Even John the Baptist, a Jews, who had baptized Jesus, is also shown as such a prophet in the Gospels). Those, who came before Jesus, mostly received acceptance; those that came after Jesus, when the Israelites were in dispersion all over the world, received only limited and localized following of varying degrees.
Now let us see, who can qualify to be a prophet as predicted in Deu 18:15. God repeatedly says in the Old Testament that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac (Abraham’s son) and Jacob or Israel (Isaac’s son) [Exodus 3:15-16, 6:3 etc.]. When the Israelites in Egypt were oppressed by Pharaoh, “God heard their groaning and he remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob”[Exodus 2:24]. And it was the children of Jacob (God later named him ‘Israel’), who ended up in Egypt, suffering Pharaoh’s oppressions. Moses, commanded by God, led them out of their Egyptian captivity and oppression. And God made His final covenant with those, who came out of Egypt with Moses—i.e. the children of Jacob/Israel. God says of this covenant: “I have promised to bring you up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusite—a land flowing with milk and honey” [Exodus 3:17]. God again makes it clear that His covenant is with the children of Jacob, when He told Moses: “This is what you are to say to the house of Jacob… if you obey me and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession” [Exodus 19:3-5].
Deu 18:15 clearly prophesies that God would choose a prophet “from among your brothers”—that is, from amongst those, who came out of Egypt under Moses’ leadership, namely the children of Jacob. In other words, God will choose prophets from amongst those, who carry the seed of Jacob as well as of his father Isaac and grandfather Abraham. The offspring of other children of Abraham and Isaac were not included in this final covenant of God.
But Muhammad and the Arabs, it is claimed, descended from Abraham’s son Ishmael. Ishmael was Abraham’s son through his slave-woman Hagar, not through Sarai, a free woman and his properly married wife. Moreover, Hagar was an Egyptian, not a Semite. Therefore, Ishmael was only half-Semitic. Semitic purity was essential to be included in the God’s covenant. So, Ishmael and his offspring fell outside the God’s covenant. Indeed, God made this clear when he said to Abraham: “…it’s through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. I will make the son of the maidservant (i.e. Ishmael) into a nation also, because he is your offspring”[Genesis 21:12-13]. In other words, the offspring of Isaac would carry forward Abraham’s true legacy; Ishmael’s offspring, carrying the gene of a non-Semitic and slave woman, will also became a nation as they multiply, but would have no legitimate claim to Abraham’s true legacy.
Therefore, Muhammad—an offspring of Ishmael, not carrying the seed of Isaac and Jacob—could, in no way, qualify to be a promised prophet of the Torah.
Indeed, Muhammad’s or Allah’s training in the Torah, it seems, was not that bad. The duo knew of this basic requirement—i.e. the necessity of carrying the seed of Isaac and Jacob, in addition to Abraham’s—to become a prophet as prophesied in the Torah. Initially Allah said the same [Quran 45:16]:
And verily we gave the Children of Israel the Scripture and the Command and the Prophethood, and provided them with good things and favored them above (all) peoples.
Here, Allah clearly agrees and affirms two cardinal facts in agreement with Old Testament: first, the Children of Israel—i.e. the Children of Jacob—were blessed with right to Prophethood; second, God’s covenant was only with them amongst all nations.
In the following verse, Allah made this central paradigm of the Torah succinctly clear:
We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation… [Quran 29:27]
This means, only those—carrying the seed of all three patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—can make a legitimate claim to prophethood.
Allah had revealed these verses in the build to later verses (7:157, 61:6 etc.), which claim Muhammad’s prophethood as promised in the Torah and Gospels. Verses 45:16 and 29:27—affirming facts of the Torah concerning the genealogical requirement for prophethood—were, it appears, intended to create a favorable and friendly impression upon the Jews (and Christians) about Muhammad, so that Allah’s later claim that Muhammad was their promised prophet would be more acceptable to them.
But the Jews, who had thorough knowledge of their scripture, had no difficulty to refute Muhammad’s claim to prophethood—given Muhammad, an Arab and the offspring of Ishmael, could not be a promised prophet. They probably had knowledge of Muhammad verses, and it seems that they point out the falsity of Muhammad’s prophetic claim by pointing to Allah’s own verses that say only the children of Jacob could become a promised prophet.
Unaware of the Jews’ depth of their scriptural knowledge, Allah initially spoke with honesty of the true requirement for prophethood without realizing that it would disqualify Muhammad’s claim to prophethood; Allah got caught red-handed in His own words. He obviously had no answer, except extreme embarrassment. All he could do to save his Godly credibility was to annihilate the Jews, to whom he got caught; this he eventually did by commanding Muhammad to put them to the sword.
Next, to legitimize Muhammad’s claim to prophet, Allah embarked on an extraordinary mission to create a completely new foundational paradigm of his creed, altering all that He had been affirming in His verses until now. First, Allah hit-back at the Jews, accusing them of corrupting the Torah, which He had earlier recognized as containing “true guidance”:
“Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn” [Quran 2:79].
Next, he had to create a totally new genealogy of prophetic requirement, so that Muhammad’s claim to prophethood becomes legitimate. Allah made Abraham a “true Muslim”, not Jew or Christian, so that Muhammad and his Muslim followers would become legitimate bearer of Abraham’s legacy, thus, justifying Muhammad’s claim to Abrahamic prophethood. So revealed Allah:
“Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah’s (Which is Islam)…” [Quran 3:67].
Until now, Muhammad, following the Jews of Medina, was turning to Jerusalem while praying, where stood God’s original sanctuary, the Temple of Jerusalem. Now, he changed the sanctuary of the Lord from Jerusalem to the pagan temple of Ka’ba at Mecca (his home town), which he now claimed to have been built by Abraham and Ishmael (Thus, Ka’ba, not the Temple of Jerusalem, became the true House of God):
And remember Abraham and Isma’il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): “Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us… [Quran 2:127]
Next, Allah would include Ishmael also into the true legacy of Abraham (which is Islamic), which was carried forward not by his son Isaac alone, but all his sons:
And this was the legacy that Abraham left to (all) his sons, and so did Jacob; “Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam.” [Quran 2.132]
Next, Allah would include Ishmael (Isma’il), mentioning by name, in the God’s true covenant, which is Islamic:
Say ye: “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam).” [Quran 2:136]
Here, Allah claims Ishmael was also amongst those, whom He gave his religion, also received by Muhammad and his followers.
As the final step of twisting facts to suit Muhammad’s claim to prophethood, and his religion as the true religion, Allah turned the entire foundation of the Abrahamic faith into an Islamic one. Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, became true heir to Abraham’s legacy. So Allah reveals:
Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah?… [Quran 2.140]
Here, Allah questions the legitimacy of identifying all the patriarchs and the twelve tribes (i.e. Children of Israel) as “Jews or Christians”. Instead, Allah, who knows better, claims they were believers in Allah, and hence, in Allah’s true religion—Islam. They were, therefore, Muslims, not Jews or Christians, in truth.
It’s interesting that even Muhammad and Allah failed to legitimize Muhammad’s claim to prophethood based on the Torah, and had to condemn it as corrupted, before perverting/rewriting all the Torah requirements for prophethood to create a completely new paradigm in the Quran to validate Muhammad’s legitimacy to prophethood; but renowned Canadian professor Jamal Badawi, trying to outdo Muhammad and Allah, outrageously tries to legitimize Muhammad’s prophetic claim based on the Torah itself using all kinds of trickery.
Summary
While Islam claims that both Jewish and Christian scriptures prophesy the coming of Muhammad as a prophet, in Christianity Jesus was the final; no future prophet would come at all. The Torah prophesies the coming of prophets, but from amongst the Children of Jacob aka Israel only. Muhammad, allegedly Ishmael’s offspring, falling outside Jacob’s descendents/genealogy, could make no claim to prophethood, whatsoever. Islamic God initially admitted this fact, albeit unwittingly. When He later tried to push Muhammad as a promised prophet to the Jews (and Christians), he got caught in His own words and was well nigh embarrassed. Angered, Allah accused the Jews of corrupting the Torah, and later altered all His earlier pronouncements about the Torah-agreeable prophetic requirements to establish the validity of Muhammad’s claim to prophethood.
Conclusion
So, was Muhammad a promised prophet of the Jews and Christians?
I leave it to readers to make their own judgment and draw conclusions accordingly.
Brought to you in courtesy of Islam-Watch
Brother Rahul,
After u quoting me, u gave me some links of(agniveer,satyavidya)
and further u said :”When I say that I accept the darker side of
Hinduism, then it means that I won’t follow it. Why I need to follow a
evil and bad thing, when I know that it is BAD?”
1) first brother u should stop being a copy and paste not only in ur reply but even in ur posts on ur website
2) the links wich u gave hear is only talking by they own without giving any strong references, its just like whatever they believe
Even so (they didn’t provide any strong refrances) ,I agree with them that ,the stories of Krishna and polygamy in hindusim r fake and the Hindus beliveing that stories blindly (as I understand)
and I congrats u ,Thats what I want to prove u and u accepted ur self ,My point is beside ISLAM all other religion scripture r corrupted , or modified and interpolated so, they r no more trust worthy boz of the man handy work and I congrats u again boz u and ur (link) both agree with me that GOD wont make u to fallow evil and bad things, but still majority of Hindus r fallow and believing in that stories blindly
Later u said : ” for the sake of argument if at all I accept whatever Churchill said about Indians, and did with us, still his saying about Muslims is not disproved. I also quoted Khomeini, what you say about his statement?”
For that first I thank’s to ALMIGHTY ALLAH ,that the guy (Churchill) is responsible for the death of millions poor Indians is against the ISLAM not the follower of it ,that what is happen when u go against the good , and fallow the evil and brother beside u lacking in knowledge ur lacking in ur commonsense too , why should I want the guy like him will perish ISLAM or any other religion I am happy that he is against it ,and what about the Khomeini ? what about him, who the hell is he or Churchill or any other (tom dick and harry) ? u might b know that we Muslims only fallow QURAN and HADITHS
whoever go aginst them is nothing to do with ISLAM ,what ever Khomeini said (as u quote may b right or may b wrong) is contradicting the QURAN and HADITH .
Next u quoted me again as I said : “Brother U already LACKING OF KNOWLEDGE ,and I mention ur IGNORANCE about ISLAM in my last reply, then how come u even think to educate them and the EVIDENCE which is given by ur godfather’s to u is already proven wrong 100′s of times before, and INSHA’ALLAH I will do it again.”
“”" By fallowing u said : “You should remember that you are only
discussing ‘Women in Hinduism’ and not defending Women in Islam, so you cannot expose my knowledge until you come to point. No where you have proven me wrong, not even a single time, 100 is far.
Later u accepted : “Lastly, I accept that I escape from logical fallacies, as you said ” first I have to show u the status of women in other religion, then I have to tell u about the status of women before
ISLAM and then proof u the difference after ISLAM,”
Brother again I am repeating the same thing, that comparision won’t prove anything. There are many religion to compare with, and many have a very high status of Women than Islam (as per scriptures).
Why clinging to same fallacy, please come to the point, and prove a High, Good and First class status
of Women in Islam, as per scriptures.”"”
So, fanilly u accpeted that u doing “Tu Quoque fallacy” (before u accusing me for that)
How can u say comparison won’t prove anything ,comparision will everything I will prove u that too
if u saying that the other religion have a very high status of women than islam (as per scripture )
why u dont giving an example and prove me that is better than ISLAM , and we will see how much knowledge u have.
Syed Zia,
Brother also do read this link:- http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/quran-koran/on-the-collection-and-preservation-of-the-quran/
To know whether Qur’an is corrupted or free from it, this article is well referenced with authentic sources of Islam.
Regards
BROTHER RAHUL ,
HELLO AGAIN THIS IS SYED ZIA,
I THINK U DIDN’T GET MY COMMENTS ON GOOGLE +, IF U GET IT THEN U DIDN’T REPLIED .I AM WAITING FOR UR SIDE ANSWER AND EXPLANATION IF U HAVE ….OR UR RUNNING OR HIDING OFF ,
TO MAKE UR MEMORY REFRESH I AM POSTING THE LINK OF OUR DISCUSSION AND OUR LAST COMMENTS TOO , HOPEFULLY U HAVE ANSWERS FOR MY REPLY IF NOT SO, PLZ STOP THIS NONSENSE AGAINST ISLAM ON THIS SITE .
https://plus.google.com/117407686163867540747/posts/YhhwQrmbfnn
WHEN U SAID :
Rahul Raj Aug 6, 2012
Dear Zia,
In your last comment you said, “first: first u denying to b a Hindu , now u said I can call u a Hindu , as well as u said Hinduism have darker side and u accept that, beside being in the darker side u Accusing other religions.”
Let me remind you, I asked you how you presumed that I am Hindu, I may be a Buddhist, Sikh etc (This you are calling denial). Anyways I asked you to call me Hindu, but also I accepted that this religion too has many darker sides, and people accept it. Now here is what a Hypocrite is “a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.”
How do I resemble to above meaning??
Next you said, ” BUT, instead of Spreading love for Humanity u only spreading HATE, MISCHIEF, MISUNDERSTANDING about ISLAM and trying to MISGUIDE the Muslim’s as well as Non-Muslim’s”
If I am misguiding and spreading Hatred, then what Taliban and Jihadis are doing? I am educating Non-Muslim as well as Muslim about the religion of hatred for humanity, i.e. Islam, which commands Muslims to kill Non-Believers, rape their women and loot their property. I have evidence for these claims.
You added, “No,brother, let me correct u, if some Muslims have darker side boz they don’t fallow the ideology of ISLAM and they didn’t love enough Prophet MOHAMMED(pbuh)”
Let me quote what Sir Winston Churchill said, he said:- “”Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.”
Did you got it, the evil doing of Muslims is because of the commands in Quran, as such 9:29 commands Muslims to fight Non-Muslim, so they do it. In fact your own scholar like Khomeni said, “”Those who know nothing about Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those people are witless. Islam says: ‘Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!’ Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by the infidel? Islam says: ‘Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter them.’ Islam says: ‘Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword.’ The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”
So you see Muslims are evil because Quran teaches them to be.
Lastly, you said “one more thing brother , for example: if ur claiming me that my religion is unjust with women, (so, for the sake of the argument keep that a side ) y don’t show me the better status of women in any other religion and tell me y its better .so,everyone can fallow that ”
Brother I don’t prescribe religion to people, we all have mind and we can choose, what is Good. Now again you stated which religion has better status of women than that of Islam. Why we need to argue on this, we need to discuss what Islam says about Women.
THEN I REPLY:
zia syedAug 6, 2012Edit
Brother Rahul,
Ok, Hypocrite means “a person who pretends to have virtues,moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.”
So,u claiming that according to this definition ur not a Hypocrite , and I can call u a Hindu and u accepting the DARKER side of the Hinduism.
So, that means -YOU GONNA SHARE UR WIFE WITH UR FOUR OTHER BROTHERS,AND IF U OR UR FATHER DIE BEFORE UR WIFE OR MOTHER SO UR WIFE AND OR UR MOTHER WILL B SATI WITH U OR WITH UR FATHER,AND THEN WHILE UR WIFE OR UR SISTER TAKING A BAATH THEN SOME KRISHNA CAN COME AND TAKE THEIR CLOTHES AND MAKE THEM COME OUT NAKED SO, HE CAN ENJOY OR U CAN GO AND STEAL FROM UR NEIGHBOUR(LIKE KRISHNA DO FOR THE MAKKHAN)AND MANY MORE?
SO U ACCEPT and FALLOW ALL THIS , THEN ONLY UR ACTIONS DIDN’T BELIE STATED OF UR BELIEFS! THEN ONLY UR NOT A HYPOCRITE.
BUT MY SECOND CLAIM IS STILL THER AS I SAID:
‘instead of Spreading love for Humanity u only spreading HATE, MISCHIEF,MISUNDERSTANDING about ISLAM and trying to MISGUIDE the Muslim’s as well as Non-Muslim’s',
…Because somebody doing wrong (like Taliban and jihadis as per ur knowledge) that didnt make u right, its just like someone stealing from ur home,BOz of that u stealing frm mine, (this is nonsense)
Next U said: ‘I am educating Non-Muslim as well as Muslim about the religion of hatred for humanity, i.e. Islam, which command Muslims to kill Non-Believers, rape their women and loot their property.I have evidence for these claims’
Brother U already LACKING OF KNOWLADGE ,and I mention ur IGNORANCE about ISLAM in my last reply, then how come u even think to educate them and the EVIDENCE which is given by ur godfather’s to u is already proven wrong 100′s of times before, and INSH’ALLAH I will do it again.
Hear my prove of ur IGNORANCE AND LACK OF KNOWLADGE,u gave me the quote from Winston Churchill, this is the same Winston Churchill who is the responsible for the death of more then million INDIAN’s by starving (u can refer to book of journalist Madhusree Mukherjee about churchill) and He is the same guy who call INDIAN’S as cowards, filthy , dirty poor and many more
(u can easy frm acces on google)
U gave the verse from QURAN 9:29,I dont understand why always u guys jump on the verse without any context,why don’t u come from the beginning.This chapter is begin with the declaration of immunity between the Muslim’s and Mushriks of Mecca and after they broke this Immunity,then ALLAH order to fight with them and even ALLAH gave them a chance in
ch 9:11: “But (even so) if they repent, establish regular prayers, and
practise regular charity― they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain signs in detail, for those who understand”
even in ch 9:29 :”Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last
Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger nor, acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued”
..here also ALLAH order to fight only with THOSE who
didnt obey the laws of the ruler (mean ALLAH ans HIS MESSENGER) and who didn’t pay jizyah,
and last u said: ‘Brother I don’t prescribe religion to people, we all
have mind and we can choose, what is Good’
Brother if u cant prescribe religion then y u misguide them with wrong info,and if u said ISLAM is bad then u should know what is good, boz u cannot say BAD TO BAD UNTIL U KNOW WHAT IS GOOD(means difference between good and bad), and u just have to suggest not impose,as u said we all have our mind and we can choose what is good,
u continue …’Now again you stated which religion has better status of women than that of Islam. Why we need to argue on this, we need to discuss what Islam says about Women’
I know u gonna try to escape with exsuce, thats y I told u in my last reply ….. ‘I totally agree with u ,we r hear to discuss the status of
women in Islam,because of ur IGNORANCE about ISLAM, first I have to show u the status of women in other religion, then I have to tell u about the status of women before ISLAM and then proof u the difference after ISLAM, then only we can do justice with this topic or justice with women of ISLAM’…….I hope u got it now…… atleast.
Dear Zia Syed,
You started discussion with this, “So, that means -YOU GONNA SHARE UR WIFE WITH UR FOUR OTHER BROTHERS,AND IF U OR UR FATHER DIE BEFORE UR WIFE OR MOTHER SO UR WIFE AND OR UR MOTHER WILL B SATI WITH U OR WITH UR FATHER,AND THEN WHILE UR WIFE OR UR SISTER TAKING A BAATH THEN SOME KRISHNA CAN COME AND TAKE THEIR CLOTHES AND MAKE THEM COME OUT NAKED SO, HE CAN ENJOY OR U CAN GO AND STEAL FROM UR NEIGHBOUR(LIKE KRISHNA DO FOR THE MAKKHAN)AND MANY MORE?
SO U ACCEPT and FALLOW ALL THIS , THEN ONLY UR ACTIONS DIDN’T BELIE STATED OF UR BELIEFS! THEN ONLY UR NOT A HYPOCRITE.”
Well first of all I would ask you to read what really Hindu Scriptures say about your above claim. Following is the Vedic site which answers all your allegation:- http://agniveer.com/polygamy-hinduism/
Regarding your allegation on Krishna, please read this:- http://www.satyavidya.org/component/content/article/50-awakening-of-nation/159-lord-krishna-an-enlightening-personality
Further I don’t know what to say, because I think you have not understood my point. When I say that I accept the darker side of Hinduism, then it means that I won’t follow it. Why I need to follow a evil and bad thing, when I know that it is BAD?
Next you said, “Brother U already LACKING OF KNOWLADGE ,and I mention ur IGNORANCE about ISLAM in my last reply, then how come u even think to educate them and the EVIDENCE which is given by ur godfather’s to u is already proven wrong 100′s of times before, and INSH’ALLAH I will do it again.”
You should remember that you are only discussing ‘Women in Hinduism’ and not defending Women in Islam, so you cannot expose my knowledge until you come to point. No where you have proven me wrong, not even a single time, 100 is far.
Also, for the sake of argument if at all I accept whatever Churchill said about Indians, and did with us, still his saying about Muslims is not disproved. I also quoted Khomeni, what you say about his statement?
Lastly, this one is interesting,”U gave the verse from QURAN 9:29,I dont understand why always u guys jump on the verse without any context,why don’t u come from the beginning.This chapter is begin with the declaration of immunity between the Muslim’s and Mushriks of Mecca and after they broke this Immunity,then ALLAH order to fight with them and even ALLAH gave them a chance in
ch 9:11: “But (even so) if they repent, establish regular prayers, and
practise regular charity― they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain signs in detail, for those who understand”
Because I know for sure that you don’t know the context. This is what one Ex-Muslim author writes, “Muslims generally accuse critics of deliberately quoting verses of the Quran “out of context” so as to distort the Quran’s message. This accusation is overwhelmingly false. Instead, Muslims themselves have an overwhelming monopoly in quoting verses of the Quran in deceptive manners so as to make its bad messages look better. And, when contexts of the Quranic verses are taken into consideration, its message turns out to be much more vile, barbaric…”
He is talking about the same verse which we are discussing, please read the complete article here:- http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=816:context-of-verses-makes-the-qurans-message-worse-barbaric&catid=132:alamgir-hussain&Itemid=58
Lastly, I accept that I escape from logical fallacies, as you said ” first I have to show u the status of women in other religion, then I have to tell u about the status of women before ISLAM and then proof u the difference after ISLAM,”
Brother again I am repeating the same thing, that comparision won’t prove anything. There are many religion to compare with, and many have a very high status of Women than Islam (as per scriptures). Why clinging to same fallacy, please come to the point, and prove a High, Good and First class status of Women in Islam, as per scriptures.
Regards..
Brother Rahul,
After u quoting me, u gave me some links of(agniveer,satyavidya)
and further u said :”When I say that I accept the darker side of
Hinduism, then it means that I won’t follow it. Why I need to follow a
evil and bad thing, when I know that it is BAD?”
1) first brother u should stop being a copy and paste not only in ur reply but even in ur posts on ur website
2) the links wich u gave hear is only talking by they own without giving any strong references, its just like whatever they believe
Even so (they didn’t provide any strong refrances frm ur scriptures ) ,I agree with them that ,the stories of Krishna and polygamy in hindusim r fake and the Hindus beliveing that stories blindly (as I understand)
and I congrats u ,Thats what I want to prove u and u accepted ur self ,My point is beside ISLAM all other religion scripture r corrupted , or modified and interpolated so, they r no more trust worthy boz of the man handy work and I congrats u again boz u and ur (link) both agree with me that GOD wont make u to fallow evil and bad things, but still majority of Hindus r fallow and believing in that stories blindly
Later u said : ” for the sake of argument if at all I accept whatever Churchill said about Indians, and did with us, still his saying about Muslims is not disproved. I also quoted Khomeini, what you say about his statement?”
For that first I thank’s to ALMIGHTY ALLAH ,that the guy (Churchill) is responsible for the death of millions poor Indians is against the ISLAM not the follower of it ,that what is happen when u go against the good , and fallow the evil and brother beside u lacking in knowledge ur lacking in ur commonsense too , why should I want the guy like him will perish ISLAM or any other religion I am happy that he is against it ,and what about the Khomeini ? what about him, who the hell is he or Churchill or any other (tom dick and harry) ? u might b know that we Muslims only fallow QURAN and HADITHS
whoever go aginst them is nothing to do with ISLAM ,what ever Khomeini said (as u quote may b right or may b wrong) is contradicting the QURAN and HADITH .
Next u quoted me again as I said : “Brother U already LACKING OF KNOWLEDGE ,and I mention ur IGNORANCE about ISLAM in my last reply, then how come u even think to educate them and the EVIDENCE which is given by ur godfather’s to u is already proven wrong 100′s of times before, and INSHA’ALLAH I will do it again.”
“”” By fallowing u said : “You should remember that you are only
discussing ‘Women in Hinduism’ and not defending Women in Islam, so you cannot expose my knowledge until you come to point. No where you have proven me wrong, not even a single time, 100 is far.
Later u accepted : “Lastly, I accept that I escape from logical fallacies, as you said ” first I have to show u the status of women in other religion, then I have to tell u about the status of women before
ISLAM and then proof u the difference after ISLAM,”
Brother again I am repeating the same thing, that comparision won’t prove anything. There are many religion to compare with, and many have a very high status of Women than Islam (as per scriptures).
Why clinging to same fallacy, please come to the point, and prove a High, Good and First class status
of Women in Islam, as per scriptures.”””
So, fanilly u accpeted that u doing “Tu Quoque fallacy” (before u accusing me for that)
How can u say comparison won’t prove anything ,comparision will everything I will prove u that too
if u saying that the other religion have a very high status of women than islam (as per scripture )
why u dont giving an example and prove me that is better than ISLAM , and we will see how much knowledge u have.
Brother Syed Zia,
We are discussing this particular topic since very long time, and I bet you it would be unproductive if we discuss it one more year. As you want comparison and I want to discuss women in Islam, these two are very different topic from each other, and we can’t discuss anything, until we agree for a common topic. Anyways, you said two points, they were:-
Brother, I am a student, and I do research on religion. Now i have decided to study various holy books of different religions, so I get less time to respond and even to write new articles, meanwhile I take some time out to publish well researched articles by many great critics of Islam, and I do publish my own articles too in my site as you can see. So there is no issue of copy-pasting, instead I ask permission for republishing the articles. Anyways, coming to your point that they (Agniveer, and other Hindu sites) talking without reference. You see agniveer articles are full of references, they provide reference to prove their point. As far Polygamy is concerned, they believe only VEDAS to be eternal and revealed book, and nowhere in Vedas it preaches polygamy. As I quote Muslim scholars to prove an Islamic point of view, the same way I quote Hindu scholars to prove Hindus point of view about their religion.
Next you said:-
Brother even Muslims are following their religion blindly, what about Quran 9:29, can you tell me how many Muslims practice this verse publicly, if not then why not? Who said Quran is free from corruption and adulteration ? Is it Quran?? If so, it would be another fallacy of circular reasoning, I can give you links of many articles, which state and prove beyond the shadow of doubt that Quran too is corrupt. See it here and here
Further you can see that Quran also has Errors and Contradictions in it too, see it here. If it had been from God, how it has errors?
Lastly you quoted all what I said, and summarized it (God knows how) and declared I am following the logical fallacy!!! I need to re-check your comments to know how I am following any logical fallacy by simply asking you to discuss ‘Women in Islam’.
Hope I answered much of your points.
Regards
I re-posted my comments , boz might b u did’t seen it or u don’t have anything to reply , if u don’t have anything to reply then u should stop posting baseless nonsense about ISLAM and stop misquoting and misguiding people
Brother Syed Zia,
I do see your comments, but because they are too lengthy and because I was having less time to respond I was ignoring it. But as you insist, I’ll definitely reply to that too, as I have replied previous one.
Regards